the People

1 Dec


1 Samuel 8

click on comments to read more indepth of this post!


6 Responses to “the People”

  1. coopgeek December 1, 2008 at 6:39 am #

    Judging from the picture, I presume that you are comparing the election of Obama with Israel’s request for a king.

    I think that the analogy is pretty weak. The reason that this scripture is so important is that it was the end of one form of governance by judges (based on leadership that was not continuous and not tied to political or economic power) with another (based on hereditary dynasties and concentration of wealth and power).

    However, we have had an effective kingship for a very long time, and Samuel’s warning has already come true under the Bush administration. Or more accurately, it has been becoming true for quite a while and Bush has just pushed it along further than average.

    I suppose that there is a chance that Obama will use the imperial presidency created by Bush/Cheney in abusive ways, but I think we need to give him the benefit of the doubt.

    I suppose that there is some parallel to the way that the powers that surround the Bush family got Jr. into power, even though he was not like his father (i.e. corrupt and incompetent). And now the people chose someone else. But even here, it’s all screwy. God chose Saul later on, after the people made their general request.

    But that’s where it breaks down. If Samuel’s sons had guided Israel until their deaths (the usual term-limits in that context), then the argument would hold more water.

    But in reality we are just replacing one president with another. This is hardly the major historic turning point (for the worse) that is represented by the transition from judges to kings.

  2. IZZY "The Artist" December 1, 2008 at 6:51 am #

    Nice post!- enjoyed… hey check out my poem in the LIFE tag, blog feature….comment please,(its featured at the top if you click on the LIFE tag:


  3. Jeremy Styron December 1, 2008 at 7:00 am #

    So, what’s the point of the post? Is there some reason you are posting this particular passage? Some catalytic event? There’s no modern context, just scripture …

  4. hmb December 1, 2008 at 6:20 pm #

    Thank you for commenting on my blog… i definitely enjoyed reading what you put but i think you made an assumption on what analogy i was supposedly trying to make, so you calling it weak is understandable. i was simply comparing the mindset of the people of Israel at that time with the mindset of those of this current time. it wouldn’t necessarily seem that way by only having followed my blog for this one blog post. i have written a couple blogs so far just commenting on the powers that are behind the government in control. From the investment bankers who own the Federal Reserve and are in charge of printing our money, to the CFR and the Bohemian Club. one of the post is titled “Novus Ordo Seclorum” and i wrote a post called “One Monkey” which was directed to the black community regarding Obama’s election.

    I feel that, as a Christian, the people have more faith in government, in Obama, than they do in the Lord & Savior Jesus Christ Himself. Which of course to me is ridiculous. So the mindset of those at that time when King Saul was in place reminds me of this time… i could careless of what regime is in place. i know that they don’t really have much control inside of government as they do outside of government. But the people don’t understand the power they have. So much power that during the time of King Samuel… God granted them their wish, His own people. He granted them what they asked for but before doing so, He had Samuel explain to them what they were really going to get from their new leader. And they didn’t care… they just wanted to be led, not knowing or understanding what they were being led to. Not asking any questions just wanting to be led. THIS IS NOT ABOUT OBAMA. giving him the benefit of the doubt or whatever i felt wouldn’t even matter at this point anyway, the people are the ones who have control. i honestly am happy for Obama but my happiness won’t allow me to not question things that are happening around the world and more importantly at home.

    I truly hope i’ve gotten my point across… if not feel free to comment back again either through email or on my blog.

    God Bless,

  5. coopgeek December 1, 2008 at 7:29 pm #

    Thanks for the clarification. I’ve taken a look at some of your other posts (and I think I’ve visited once before, possibly after a random link led me to yours after I blogged on Luke Skywalker’s patriotism). Your posts are pretty eclectic, I must say.

    You are right that passivity is very dangerous.
    I think it would have been helpful to include some of your response to me as context for the initial post. Too many people want to just write him off as some sort of totalitarian socialist, and by doing a raw scripture-dump, you were potentially feeding that dynamic among less critical readers who were out trolling for “biblical” posts. It’s easy to beat up on Saul, but we need to also look at cherished kings like David, Solomon and all the rest, and see that they were all part of the long gruesome decline that ended with the Exile; this was in turn ended by Nehemiah’s adept community organizing skills that might or might not be echoed by Obama’s use of his campaign networks to encourage grassroots action to supplement whatever the government does.

    It sounds like we share a cautious optimism (and a deep suspicion that any president can solve our problems). One of the most disturbing things this election season has been the blind hope that some people seem to have. There was this specific “puppy dog eyes” look that I saw a lot at his rallies that made me very uneasy. Critical faculties were shutting down.

    So far, I’m somewhat reassured by how he’s handling it, despite my significant philosophical differences with his apparent policy direction. He knows that if he gets too progressive he’ll be marginalized and get nothing done.

    He’s getting a varied group together to give him the big picture, and also telling the public (as in his victory speech) that this is not the change we want, but the chance to make that change. As I mentioned in several of my own posts, “Yes we can” implies that we have to actually do something.

    Anyhow, there are certainly some interesting parallels with the mindset, but I hope that we can be more clear when throwing out biblical passages. Thanks again for the chance for an interesting dialogue.

  6. Jeremy Styron December 1, 2008 at 9:56 pm #

    So, essentially you are saying the masses who followed Obama were like herded cattle or sheep? They just wanted, desired to be led. That clears things up. I guess the post would have been better served by posting the scripture and then explaining the analogy more clearly. But it’s an interesting way to look at the Obama-nation thing, if you want to call it that. By the way, I would suggest that folks desire a leader, not only an inspirational one, but a intellectual and strong one, is because in many people’s minds, it’s been eons since we’ve had that. At least eight years, and some would argue, not since Reagan or JFK or MLK. I think that’s where the supposed “craze” comes into play.

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